BIG MUM CLEAVE

Catherine Jane Lloyd

My 2nd great grandmother

BIRTH 1863 • Victoria, Australia

DEATH 23 SEPTEMBER 1934 • Cosgrove, Victoria, Australia

Disclaimer; It is quite challenging to collate all of the fascinating information I learn about my ancestors, and it takes me hours to put these blogs together. This is mainly because I go down the worm hole of researching and re-reading documents to try and maintain accuracy in the information. Writing about Big Mum Cleave is important to me, as sometimes one persons story becomes overshadowed by others. I will do my best to honour my 2nd great grandmother by not getting too sidetracked!

Catherine, known as Kate, was born in 1863 to Thomas Lloyd Senior and Jane Quinn. Tom Snr was born in Tipperary, Ireland and travelled to Australia in his youth. I am yet to discover the travel document, but I believe it would have been with his family, as his mother Bridget is buried at Greta and all of his siblings were here. Jane Quinn came to Australia from Ballymena, Antrim, Northern Ireland, in 1841 as a young child with her parents and siblings. The families settled at Wallan, about 43 km north of Melbourne.

Tom Snr and Jane married at Wallan in 10 June 1857. They went on to have 12 children!! Not all births were registered, so this list is a work in progress and some dates don’t seem right (feel free to correct me as needed):

• Mary 1858 – 1928 (married John McElroy)
• John “Jack” 1860 – 1879 (accidentally killed by his first cousin Thomas Peter Lloyd at O’Brien’s Hotel in Greta. Thomas was acquitted of manslaughter & the charge dismissed. The death was ruled as a accidental)
• Catherine “Kate” Jane 1863 – 1934
• Bridget 1864-1924 (married Joseph Henry Jones)
• Winifred 1867 – 1919 (married Joseph James McGaffin)
• Jane 1871 – 1873
• Margaret 1876 – unknown but likely as an infant
• Jane Carol 1878-1939 (married Matthew James Brown)
• Thomas 1879 – (went to South African war?)
• Ellen Grace 1880 – 1890
• John “James” Joseph 1880 – 1918 (Served in Egypt 1915-16, and on the Western Front, 1916)
• William 1882 – 1886 (unverified)

Tom Snr and Jane’s siblings (Jack and Catherine) also married, strengthening ties between the Lloyd and Quinn families. Jane’s sister Ellen, married John ‘Red’ Kelly, their son being Ned Kelly. The Lloyd and Quinn families were well known sympathisers of the Kelly Gang, and the sisters were all very close. In fact, the sisters lived together in Greta (that’s a whole other story) and their children had unbreakable bonds.

After the Lloyd family left the Wallan area, they held a property at Lurg that was described, back in the day, as being four miles from Greta and about 12 miles from Benalla. The children attended Lurg State School and would walk from the farm, down the road to the school building. It was on one such walk that poor little Gracie was murdered (her story is at the end of this blog).

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Much of what I know of Kate, centres around what we know from the papers during the peak of the Kelly Gang, and then later in her life. We know that she was a gifted horsewoman and cross-country rider who didn’t shy from riding astride. We also know how much she valued family above all else.

Reporters during the trial of Ned Kelly made several observations about Kate as she was frequently in court and visited Ned in the jail. It was said that Kate was notably beautiful, with long black hair, elegant in her manner and quietly but well attired. Much speculation was made in the newspapers, and locally, that Ned and Kate were romantically involved. While it wouldn’t have been unheard of back then, both of my Aunts were adamant that this was not the case, that they were just very close and that their values, aptitude with horses and Irish spirit made them gravitate toward each others company.

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Parting of Ned Kelly and his cousin, Miss Lloyd, at Benalla railway station

Date1880. Illustrated newspaper file. Australian pictorial weekly.

Shows an injured Ned Kelly, lying on a cart beside the train and a tearful Miss Lloyd leaning over him, several men are standing around the cart and are obviously sympathetic towards the outlaw and his cousin.

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Much has been recorded about the families, and it’s always interesting to read the old newspaper articles. It is evident that some people were supportive of Ned, while others condemned anyone and everyone involved.

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It is fascinating to note, that in 1890, Tom Snr and Jane left their farming pursuits and became the Lessee of the “Benalla Coffee Palace”. Such an interesting change in life for them and something that really caught my interest. Tom Snr was a man of many talents indeed!

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Following the death of Ned in 1880, it was not till 2 June 1895 (some 15 years later), that Kate married William John Cleave (my 2nd great grandfather). William was 47 years old when they married, while Kate was just 32 years.

“A very interesting wedding took place at St. Joseph’s Church, Benalla, on the 26th ultimo, when Miss Kate Lloyd, eldest daughter of Mr. Thomas Lloyd, of the Benalla Coffee Palace, entered into the bonds of matrimony with Mr. W. J. Cleave, of Gowangardie. The knot was tied by the Rev. Father Tobin. Jane Lloyd, sister of the bride, acted as bridesmaid, while Mr. Keogh, of Tamleugh, acted as best man. The bride, who was handsomely attired, and looked very pretty, was given away by her father. The bridesmaid was also prettily dressed. After the performance of the wedding ceremony the company drove to the residence of the bride’s parents where a sumptuous breakfast was partaken off, and the usual toasts honored. The newly married couple received a grand send-off by the railway-men, by whom the pair were well-known and highly respected. Mr. and Mrs. Cleave arrived in Violet Town on Friday evening and received hearty congratulations on all hands, and they left here on the following day for their home at Gowangardie with the good wishes of their many friends.” Violet Town Sentinel (Vic. : 1894 – 1904; 1914 – 1920; 1939 – 1946), Friday 8 March 1895, page 2.

“Miss Kate Lloyd, eldest daughter of. Mr T. Lloyd, of the Benalla Coffee Palace, was married on Tuesday to Mr: J. W. Cleave, of Gowangardie. The ceremony took place in St. Joseph’s Chapel Benalla, and was performed by the Rev. Father Tobin in the presence of a large congregation, the bride being given away by her father. The bride was attired in white cashmere, with ribbons and lace to match, and the customary bridal wreath and veil. Her attendant bridesmaid was her sister, Miss Jane Lloyd, who wore a pretty dress of white shower-of-hail imusli?n. Mr D. Keogh, of Shepparton, was best man. The wedding break. fast was laid out at the Benalla Coffee’ Palace and was partaken by a large company of friends. The happy couple left by the afternoon train, amidst showers of rice and’ good wishes, for Melbourne, where the honeymoon is to be spent.” North Eastern Ensign (Benalla, Vic. : 1872 – 1938), Friday 1 March 1895, page 2

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William was born in 1848, on the Bass River, South Gippsland. A widow, William’s first wife Margaret Dwyer, passing away in 1887 at age 42. They had 8 children together, sadly only 3 sons and 2 daughters survived her.

My Aunty told me that Kate was a maternal woman, who saw William and his children needing a woman’s hand and took care of them. She later was referred to as ‘Big Mum Cleave’, due to her caring and loving nature with all the children in her care.

William was a blacksmith, running his own businesses around Tatura, Murchison and Toolamba, before settling down at Koonda (Gowangardie).

William and Kate had 6 children together, not all surviving infancy. They are as follows:

• Priscilla Jane 1896 – 1960 (my great grandmother)
• Thomas Vivian 1897 – 1968
• Catherine “Winnie” Winifred 1899 – 1993
• Eileen 1900 – 1901
• Eileen Ettie 1902 – 1902
• Mary “Phyllis” Josephine 1903 – 1972
• Henry Edward 1907 – 1908

Following his success at the Benalla Coffee Palace, Tom Snr left this world on 26 September 1900 at age 67.

Jane followed him just a few years later on 28 November 1904.

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Benalla Standard (Vic. : 1901 – 1940), Friday 2 December 1904, page 2

“Death or Mrs. T. Lloyd — Deep regret was expressed on Tuesday morning when it became known that Mrs. Jane Lloyd, relict of the late Mr. Thos. Lloyd, had expired suddenly on Monday night. The immediate cause of death was a paralytic stroke. A short time ago she was attacked with a similar stroke, but had apparently got alright again, and on Monday she was engaged about her usual duties when she was attacked with the seizure which ultimately proved fatal. Mrs. Lloyd was amongst the oldest colonists, having come out to Victoria with her parents, Mr. and Mrs. James Quinn, when four years of age, in 1841, and she has therefore been nearly 64 years in Victoria. Her parents after landing in Melbourne settled in the Wallan Wallan district. She was married to the late Mr. Lloyd at Wallan Wallan on the same day that Mr. Miller was married to her sister, the celebrant being Dean O’Hea.

Mr. and Mrs. Lloyd, after living at Woodstock for a short period, removed to the Greta district, where they took up land, and continued to reside there until about six years ago, when they came into Benalla, and took The Coffee Palace at the corner of Nunn and Benalla streets. Mrs. Lloyd afterwards went out to Warrenbayne, but only for a very short period, and lately, she has been residing in Benalla West. She leaves a family of six daughters and three sons, for whom great sympathy in expressed in their bereavement. The remains were interred in the Benalla cemetery on Wednesday last in the presence of a large number of sympathisers and friends. The mortuary arrangements were carried out by Mr. Hanlon and the burial service was read by the Rev. Father O’Reilly.“

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One of my favourite photos, is one of William with Priscilla, Winnie and Thomas out front of Cleave’s forge. I believe it also features Williams three sons from his first marriage at the rear; William John, George Michael and John Patrick. I’ve always thought that he looks like a gentle giant; hardworking and proud.

William John Cleave died 25 February 1921 in the Mooroopna Hospital. He was 73 years of age, and suffered from Heart Disease (2 years) and Oedema of the lungs (2 weeks).

Following William’s death, Kate moved from Gowangardie to Melbourne and lived out her days with her daughters.

Some later photos of Big Mum Cleave exist, but I often wish there were more. She led such an interesting life, and I would love to know more about her.

Big Mum Cleave passed away on 24 September 1934 aged 71 years. The newspapers at the time incorrectly reporting her death, and still linking her to Ned and the Kelly gang. Her husband was named as Thomas, when that was in fact her father. The comments made about the armour are interesting, but obviously although William was a blacksmith, he was unlikely to be associated with the family at the time. I’ve wondered if perhaps Tom Snr had a hand in the making of the armour, as he had the land and capabilities. The police had paid the neighbouring farmer to be an informant, and report to them the comings and goings of the Kelly Gange on the farm but I guess we will never know.

John Edward Gawne and Mary Priscilla (Maree) Gawne, my Unlcle and Aunt, share Big Mum’s final resting place at the Shepparton Public Cemetery.

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Ellen Grace Lloyd 27 July 1879 – 22 January 1890

Before reading the next part, please be aware that it is quite a distressing story and the content involves murder and suicide.

Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 – 1957), Friday 24 January 1890, page 5

SHOCKING TRAGEDY NEAR BENALLA. BRUTAL MURDER OF A GIRL. SUICIDE OF THE MURDERER. VERDICT OF TEMPORARY INSANITY. (BY TELEGRAPH FROM OUR CORRESPONDENT.)

WANGARATTA, THURSDAY.

A terrible tragedy occurred yesterday after-noon at Lurg, near the small township of Greta, which will be remembered in connection with the Kelly outlaws some years ago, and about 12 miles from Benalla. The Glenrowan police were informed last night of the tragedy, and Constable McLennon, after telegraphing to the police at Wangaratta and Benalla, hastened to the locality. The victim was a young girl named Ellen Grace Lloyd, whose parents are engaged in farming within five miles of Greta, and the murderer was a young man named George Lionel Lambert, aged 25, who was employed by Mr. Thomas Lloyd as a labourer on his farm. The girl was 11 years old, and usually attended the state school of Lurg, which is the nearest to her parents’ residence.

Yesterday, after the school had been dismissed, she was returning home in company with her younger brother, who is only nine years of age. The girl was hurrying home, and was 400 yards in advance of the boy. They were within a mile of the house, and he saw Lambert and his sister struggling together, and that she was being dragged from the track. The little boy was greatly frightened, and did not wait to see what followed, but at once ran home and told his mother of the occurrence. An elder brother, 14 years old, went, in company with his mother, to the spot indicated by his brother, and there they found the girl lying near a fence at the side of the track, just breathing. She attempted to speak, but could not, and died in her mother’s arms almost immediately. Her throat was cut in a frightful manner from ear to ear, the head being almost completely severed from the body. Her school bag lay close by, and indications of a struggle could be seen. The victim had evidently grasped the wire of the fence in her dying efforts. Blood marks were traced from the pathway, 40 yards away, to where the body was found, and the hat of the victim, covered with blood, was picked up near a clump of bushes.

As soon as possible news was sent to the Greta police station and afterwards to Glenrowan, whence telegrams were despatched to the Benalla and Wangaratta police. The Glenrowan constable, who was first on the spot, found Lambert lying dead within a short distance of the murdered girl. His throat was gashed in a manner similar to Grace Lloyd’s, and he was quite dead. A black tracker and police from Benalla, and Sergeant Steele and a con-stable from Wangaratta, arrived afterwards, and Lambert’s body was removed to a farm-house early in the morning.

An examination of the spot showed that a severe struggle had taken place. The razor was subsequently discovered near by. Lambert had been noticed sharpening the weapon on the previous day, but no notice had been taken of this. The murderer was a young Englishman, 25 years of age, who was well educated and believed to be very well connected. He called 12 months ago at Lloyd’s farm in search of work, which was given to him, and he was always well behaved and liked by his employer and family. Grace, however, told her mother on one occasion that she disliked him.

Yesterday, Thomas Lloyd, the father, was at Benalla on business, and Mrs. Lloyd was alone at the farm with one son. At about 3 o’clock Lambert asked Mrs. Lloyd if there was anything for him to do, and on being told that there was not he offered to drive in the cows which were kept in a paddock a short distance trom the homestead, and situated between the Lurg school and Lloyd’s residence. Mrs. Lloyd saw him depart, and this was the last time he was seen alive by her. The track from the Lurg school to Lloyd’s lies between two paddocks, in one of which is a thick growth of young trees, and this spot was chosen by Lambert for the murder.

An inquest on the body was held by Mr. C. L. Dobbin, P.M., this afternoon, which showed that Lambert had premeditated the act. He was fond of the girl and wished to die with her. A letter was found in his pos-session showing that he intended that they should, as he expressed it, reach Heaven together.

A medical examination showed that there was no trace of violence on the girl.

LATER.

At the inquest held before Mr Dobbin, P.M., at Lurg today, Thos. Lloyd de-posed :—I am a farmer residing at Lurg. Grace, the deceased, is my daughter. She will be 11 years of age on the 11th July. I saw her body removed to-day, and then saw that she was dead, with her throat cut. I know the deceased, Lambert. He was in my employ as a generally useful man. He has been with me about 12 months. Last December I heard him say that he was 25 years old. During the time he was with me he was very well conducted, steady, and agreeable. He had been a sailor. He was quite steady as long as he kept away from drink. I saw him yesterday morning after milking the cows and have not seen him since until now, when I saw him lying dead in the shed. I don’t know how he came by his death, nor can I offer any opinion as to the state of his mind, but I always looked upon him as a man of sound mind.

Jane Lloyd said,—I am the wife of the last witness, and the deceased, Ellen Grace Lloyd, was my daughter. I last saw her alive yesterday morning, and again in the evening, when she was lying on the road dead, with her throat cut. She was dressed as she left home, with the exception that her hat was off. I know the deceased, Lambert, and have nothing to add to what my husband has said about him. I last saw him alive at about 4 o’clock yester-day evening. He was then in the house. He asked me if I had anything for him to do, and I said “No.” He said that he had nothing to read, and he was going over to Mr. Henry’s for a book. It would be in the direction my children went to school. They went to the school on the Benalla road. I removed the body of my daughter to the house. When I found her she was lying on her face, and appeared to have got through the fence and then fallen.

John James Lloyd deposed,—I live with my father and mother at Lurg, and shall be eight years old on the 26th January. I know the girl who is lying dead. She is my sister. I saw her yesterday morning, and I went to school with her. I returned with her in the evening, and when returning she was ahead of me. When I last saw her she was running with blood on her. Before this, I saw her dodging George Lambert behind a bush. I can’t say if her throat was cut then. It would be about four minutes afterwards that I saw her throat cut. She was alive, and looked up at me, but did not speak. I then saw Lambert walking towards me. He had blood all down his chest, and he then fell down in front of the fence.

Patrick Blade said,—I am police-constable at Wangaratta. At 4 a.m. to-day I arrived at the house of Thos. Lloyd, and was shown the bodies. About an hour later I visited the scene of the alleged murder and suicide, which was about three quarters of a mile from this. I found in the immediate vicinity the hat produced, blood marked, and near by saw great quantities of blood on the grass. I also found the bottle produced, which contained violet ink. Fom the place where I found the hat I saw traces of blood to the road. About four yards from that I found the razor blade produced, and subsequently Sergeant Steele handed me the handle produced.

The jury returned a verdict that Lambert committed the murder when suffering from temporary insanity. The following is the letter found upon the murderer:—

“Dec. 5th.—I give and bequeath unto 1. Thomas Lloyd, senior, everything I possess, on condition that he buries me, Geo. L. Lambert. 2. Thomas Lloyd senior, to get my letter from the General Post-office, and have the money contained therein to bury me according to the rights of the Catholic Church. 3. God in his infinite mercy has decreed me to act thus. Great God is our father, and unto him we go, my darling Ellen Grace and I. We shall have no more early troubles and trials. God have mercy on our souls. God be merciful unto us sinners. God has called us to Himself. We shall both meet in heaven. It is God’s will that we both go together.—(Signed) GEORGE LIONEL LAMBERT, ELLEN GRACE LLOYD.”

The handwriting of the latter signature does not correspond with that of the girl, and, although in a disguised hand, is believed to be Lambert’s.

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